This process looks promising, I really would like to see some more testing and samples of the knives for more people to try out. Good evening Nope The fact that the Diamondblade knife still outcut the others despite the thickness disadvantage is relatively impressive, which is why I pointed it out. email@example.com In the patent  they report tests with a “Brown Bear Cleaver” blade comparing conventional and FSP D2 blades. Ordinary D2 lasts for about 15 strokes. In Figure 2, we see how much rope can be cut without losing shaving sharpness. In a study of 4140 a hardness of 62 Rc was achieved compared with 61 Rc with conventional hardening and a water quench . This introduction to Friction Forging® will cover the technical aspects and terms of what makes a good blade and how we create a “Super Blade” through Friction Forging®. Clay, that’s what I meant about “your beliefs” you seem to feel there is some grand conspiracy limiting true knife performance. But friction stir processing involves way more deformation and friction intentionally generating high temperatures and quenching to form martensite. May 9, 2020 - Explore Jane Doe's board "Friction Folding Knives" on Pinterest. Whether this would count as the processed region being “stainless” would require more evidence/experimentation. In other words, the steel is not as prone to develop cracks and chips in a mosaic of fine-grained as opposed to coarser grained material. This article (and others) are largely based on your assumptions, suspicions, thermal calculations, opinions, simulations, estimates, and just plain guesses. As discussed previously, the objective is to keep the REST value under 3.0. The area immediately above the Friction Forged® zone is in the mid 50’s HRc and the remainder of the blade is engineered to have a lower HRc value of 45 thus providing a tough, slightly “springy” blade that resists breakage under extreme conditions. 12 (2009): 1471-1475. It could lead to the unprocessed portion of the blade corroding at a faster rate, however. The combination of thousands of pounds of forging force, tool rotation, and temperatures above the transformation temperature produces dramatic reductions in grain size. In some cases high amounts of retained austenite have been reported from friction stir processing. Even the most casual knife user should be able to tell the difference. I think cost had a thing to do with some of this limitations. - … Friction Forging® uses a specially designed tool made from Polycrystalline Cubic Boron Nitride … So basically we are paying for “all” of the steel and only getting to use “half” of it. This is especially the case when there are no “buffers”, such as oxides between the grains that will be prone to allowing a crack to run between the grains in the oxide regions. I would like to know what factual evidence led you to make this statement: “Perhaps the FSP D2 did no better with the cardstock leading to them looking for an alternative.” This statement is pure assumption (with a negative slur) as you gave no proof whatsoever that this was actually the case. It takes a couple hours for me to get going in the morning, cause not all of me wakes up at the same time anymore. Yet, there are just “holes” in your information about what makes true knife performance that you’re attempting to fill with unorthodoxed methods.  https://www.diamondbladeknives.com/FAQ. The grains are in effect torn apart and reduced in size by the combination of very high pressure and heat. Finer grain structure equates to greater edge strength, toughness, and a longer lasting edge. When you reach the temperature that the required speed of the quench doesn’t change anymore, then that’s the right temperature you need to normalize at. LEARN ABOUT DIAMONDBLADE'S REVOLUTIONARY FRICTION FORGING® TECHNOLOGY JOIN OUR NEWSLETTER FOR SPECIAL DEALS AND PROMOTIONS DiamondBlade Knives 3100 Airport Drive … Sincerely & Respectfully The steels Tycoons DO NOT want the tools that make the infrastructure of every country, to last. The 440C is a bit smaller than the other reports, though the conventionally processed steel was measured as only 2 microns which seems too fine so the measurement method is perhaps in question. But the Friction Forged D2 still had a REST value less than 3.0 with more than 250 inches of rope cut. If for some strange reason he starts to think for himself, then he gets his hands slapped by the Moderator or one of the big name knife makers on the site. I don’t know what to make of the CATRA testing with rope and I don’t trust the results. However, 1000°C isn’t high enough for peak hardness and 1200°C is too high because of excess retained austenite. The quench is a technique of cooling the blade in still air, circulated air, oil or other quenchant. Most knife makers have far more ability and intellect than I do. It’s all about money. “Recent advances in friction-stir welding–process, weldment structure and properties.” Progress in materials science 53, no. I’m sorry folks, but this is no longer a case of simple ignorance…it’s a case of pure stupidity. They shared a micrograph of the TEM imaging but it is very high magnification so it is hard to tell what the average grain size would be. Able to cut through any item in the kitchen, frozen or fresh, these knives … Thank you for your input.  Dodds, S., A. H. Jones, and S. Cater. A 30% increase in performance is hard to predict ?? Grain refinement relates directly to toughness and toughness is the missing ingredient in most high carbon knives made today. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). The tang is a lot more … Friction folders use the handle’s friction against the tang to stay open or closed. Without quantitative toughness tests using comparisons with conventional steel and alternative steels it is very hard to say if the toughness is bad, good, or excellent. In fact the friction forged blade appears to be slightly worse. Estwing - Drake Off Road Tools Double Bit Axe - 38 oz Wood Spitting Tool with Forged Steel Construction & Shock Reduction Grip - EDBA Leather 4.7 out of 5 stars 853 $43.10 $ 43 . If he persists in thinking for himself, and starts using his own logic and common sense to figure things out, he gets warned a few times and eventually banned from the forum. In a study of 440C the pitting resistance was improved from 137 mV to 151 mV . This is similar to hardness measurements of D2 I have taken with different heat treatment parameters, though I used cryo after quenching. Figure 3 illustrates the number of strokes it takes to dull the blade. Furthermore I was appalled at the casual contempt you showed in your article for the many years of scientific research and the controlled testing, and the indisputable contribution that Cliff Stamp has made to the knife community. Wayne Goddard reportedly  chopped through a 2×4 and then bent the blade 120 degrees. — Dr. Tracy Nelson, Phd., Brigham Young University Mechanical … Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! If this can be done fast and consistent enough, maybe it would be a better way to mass-produce knives? The reason is because each “cut” is both a forward and backward stroke, so the first half-cut wears the edge which leads to less cutting in the second half. Last thing I want to do when I get home is to bring work home with me. I work with metals and composites all day. Sincerely It is common in the scientific community to “critically analyze” published research. S30V makes it to 100. DiamondBlade's Friction Forged blades are probably the most significant legitimate improvement in the knife industry in over 40 years. If a high degree of toughness is combined with high hardness, that tool or knife is capable of performance we never thought possible, is nearly indestructible, and will last for a very long time. This is a very fine grain structure. Hand Forged Knives Minnesota MadeWelcome to NorthStar Forge Minnesota’s premier knife makers for custom made knives, swords, metal jewelry, knife accessories, and more. What I found instead was repeated phrases like: “…so I don’t think…”, ” I believe…”, “…is probably due to…”, “So it appears…”, “…seems…”, “…perhaps”, “…doesn’t seem likely”, “I assume…”, “…is suspect”, etc. The company DiamondBlade Knives produces knives with friction stir processed (FSP) edges . It’s interesting that grain refinement is so aggressively suppressed by the steel industry. Knife blades have been forged for thousands of years, using hand-held hammers, power hammer mills, or some other pressure exerting force. “Forging” is the technique of shaping steel, through pressure and heat by hammering, pressing, or rolling. I’m having a little fun with you and over-emphasizing a bit, to make my point. Knives of Alaska Press Release Tejon Ranch, California, USA - May 8, 2007: Knives of Alaska President, Charles E. Allen announced the formation of DiamondBlade LLC to manufacture extreme performance Friction Forged… It’s also interesting that the fabrication shops with military contracts for making bearings ,utilize the much higher normalizing temps for 52100. The blade edge is brought up to the transformation temperature by the tool. Despite the sXXv series of steel outperforming traditionally forged D2, they came nowhere near the Friction Forged D2. Therefore I can speak with confidence that this is a consistent property of metals, even with grain refinement. The carbide structure and high hardness would lead to “good” at best toughness. However, stupidity is incurable and can not be fixed. As the steel is brought up to transformation temperatures while Friction Forging®, the carbides dissolve and go into solution. But to be honest with you I am so glad to be free from their religious type of thinking that throws the facts away in favor of their assumptions, speculations and estimations…all of which are readily provided for them by the industry. I have never seen anyone use rope instead of cardstock and its use raises some questions. : Total media cut as a function cumulative REST sharpness, : ERT sharpness as a function of the number of strokes cut in the ERT media, LEARN ABOUT DIAMONDBLADE'S REVOLUTIONARY FRICTION FORGING® TECHNOLOGY. Take Care and have a pleasant evening. If not do you think they could get edge hardness closer to the serrated edge on the plain edge version? Everything goes good if a knife maker stays in his box and doesn’t make waves or ruffly feathers. Welcome back to Instagram.  https://www.buckknives.com/about-knives/choosing-the-right-knife/. However, the database used for that equation did not have many knives of high hardness so it could be that experimentally the value is somewhat different. Keep up the good work. The process is designed to work without melting of the materials. Our research has developed techniques and made technological advances that take manufactured knife-edge performance to the next level. And that the friction forged edge is stainless unlike conventionally processed D2. This guy used super quench and didn’t know white #1 isn’t stainless, don’t worry about his criticisms. His custom knives were thinner behind the edge: 0.01″ compared with 0.015″. Diamondblade Knives is a sub-company of Knives of Alaska. The blade has a graceful, full-bellied 4″ drop-point blade — it’s old school cool. With all due respect, the over-all and underlying theme of your article was negative. Cliff Stamp summarized reports of testing by different forum members on their experiences with Diamondblade Alpha . Differential heat treatments (soft spine, hard edge) are difficult to achieve with conventional methods on high alloy steels like D2. Reported results are somewhat mixed but grain refinement, carbide refinement, and hardness improvements have been reported when compared with conventionally heat treated steel. What is forging? S90V goes to about 799 strokes. Accordingly, the ERT test was run until the REST value was greater than 3. (: WOW !!! SAME GEOMETRY: When testing, test blades must be of the EXACT same edge and overall geometry. WOW !!! A “Super Blade” steel must start with “the right stuff” in it before we attempt to make it better through Friction Forging®. Thank you for the reply. 1-2 (2013): 863-877. It matters not at all that you included positive material, that was only something to fall back on, if you were confronted. The shingle test did not show that the friction forged D2, D2 and S30V had any advantage over the other. Traditional Knife/Knives - 12" Full Angkhola Yugal Kukri - Authentic Hand Forged Full Tang Guard Handle Blade Handmade in Nepal 3.1 out of 5 stars 5 $129.90 $ 129 . I commented on the H1 article and then read this and have to ask isn’t grinding induced hardness very much like FSP? Thus another measure of a high performance blade is one that has a softer tough spine and a very hard edge that is not so brittle as to chip in normal use. This is such a simple, basic experiment yet I’m guessing that nobody has ever done this. Nowhere did I say that the knives are bad or that no one should buy one. New article about "Friction Forged" knives which are produced by Diamondblade Knives using a process called Friction Stir Processing. The D2 steel was selected to show the dramatic performance increase in that steel due to Friction Forging®. When forging is performed in conjunction with the proper heat treatments termed, Blades that are uniformly hard throughout are more brittle and will break rather than flex when significant transverse loads are exerted. When friction stir processing steel, the high heat that is generated in combination with rapid cooling leads to a process similar to hardening steel: the steel is “austenitized” and quenched to form hard martensite. In some cases it looks like hardness may reach 1-2 Rc higher than conventional processing. Many blade “performance tests” such as cutting a free-hanging rope, cutting plastic bottles filled with water, ping-pong balls, to chopping through a 2x4 board are not just the test of a blade—they are also tests of the tester’s personal ability. A stainless edge reduces or eliminates this problem. Experimentation and new technology should be greatly encouraged by the steel industry but sadly the industry takes great pains to devalue, discourage, demphasize, and dissuade, any attempts to pursue technological advances and discoveries. It gets rid of rolling directionality issues which can really present themselves on steels with large primary alloy carbides (Chrome Carbide). Friction stir processing of 440C led to a max hardness of about 61.5 Rc with an average around 60 Rc . Trans Tech Publications Ltd, 2013. Holy Wall of Text Batman, wow pretty rude stuff you put in there Clay. Dear Mr Thomas..I would politely suggest you go back to the institution where you got your degree and either learn the basics of metallurgy or give back your certificate of Material Science. I am also surprised at this summary since I spoke to Phil shortly before publishing this article. Knife making is no longer a “craft” or a “trade”, it has become a religion. I have a separate article on H1: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/06/24/h1-steel-how-it-works/. We want real world testing and factual evidence. I did not see any benefit with the friction forged D2. I also wanted to thank you for the many informative articles and helpful information you have given to the knife community. My reason for commenting on the FSP was to test the waters of the knife community to see if there might be some interest in grain and carbide refinement. My hat is off to Phil Wilson for having the honesty and integrity to admit the FSP D2 knife “outcut his two comparison knives by about 30%” . I hate to say this but Knives of Alaska and DiamondBaled Knives may never receive support from the steel industry in their pursuit of performance. In their FAQ they have 65-69 Rc listed but in another part they listed 65-71 Rc. Visualize a steel blade as an object made up of a multitude of crystalline, multiple faced structures with distinct boundary regions between the different grains. It truly is a pity that the real world products we make and use everyday are based on assumptions and estimates. Improvements in hardness have been claimed from Friction Stir Processing relative to conventional austenitizing and quenching. No direct comparison was made to conventional processing. 735, pp. It’s certainly possible to harden 440C to 61.5 Rc and higher with conventional hardening, especially with cryo. A forged knife is made of a single bar of steel, which is heated and then pounded into shape, sometimes by a specially trained craftsman, sometimes by machine. It is critical to employ well-designed tests to determine whether one blade material performs better than another. Figure 1 shows that the Friction Forged® blade starts out sharper, cutting 50% more material per stroke at the outset. Cool Knives Knives And Tools Knives And Swords Friction Folder La Forge Forged Knife Survival Weapons Edc Knife Edc Gear Instagram post by Rylan, Host of TheKnifeClub • Jun 20, 2016 at 7:57pm … It is incredulous that you can make negative assumptions about the edge retention and corrosion resistance of a product that you have never tested in either department. Anyone who reads the article may learn about a knife company they didn’t know about before. I wanted to thank you for allowing me the privilege to post comments on your site. You also misinterpreted what I wrote about his testing. Like super quench, etc and think there is a grand conspiracy for why it’s not done. So there has been some inconsistency and perhaps some climbing of the hardness values. What would happen if knife makers ever found out that the “Industry Standard” heat treat is actually a “Sub Standard” heat treat that only uses half of what the steel has to offer? I challenge anyone to call the metallurgists and engineers responsible for the different “melts” in the steel mills…and strike up a conversation about grain refinement in high alloy steels. You disdainfully dismissed his “summary reports” by stating “I’m not sure the comparisons are worth very much”. Friction folding knives are the original folding pocket knife. Handmade, Hand Forged Knives, Forged in Fire and Hammered Thanks For Supporting Small Business USA Search Toggle navigation Home Shop Shop All Gift Certificates Knife Making Classes Hand Forged Knives … Knives And Tools Knives And Swords Friction Folder Knife Template Best Pocket Knife Edc Knife Straight Razor Tactical Knives Today we welcomed 168 new members to the #ACAlumni community. I said that Phil’s knives were thinner providing them an advantage, but were lower in hardness which was a disadvantage. I reported in this article on CATRA testing that higher wear resistance steels can cut more cardstock in cut number one. You ought to try it some time…who knows, you might even find out it’s a better product than Parks #50 ?? The knives are advertised as having a finer grain structure than powder metallurgy stainless steel and superior edge retention, toughness, and sharpness than knives tested in 12 other blade steels including S90V. Could it be that the steel industry does not want knife makers, tool and die shops, machinists and fabrication shops to ever realize the importance of grain refinement as it relates to the quality and longevity of tools ?? At a time when Robb Gunter should be nominated and inducted into the knife makers Hall of Fame for his expertise and contribution to the steel industry …but instead his hard work and expertly formulated “Super Quench” is continually and repeatedly bashed and trashed on most knife forums. Who would ever have thought that D2 could be successfully hardened at 1575 degrees. “Tribological enhancement of AISI 420 martensitic stainless steel through friction-stir processing.” Wear 302, no.  Allen, Charles E., Richard A. This is similar to finding the peak austenitizing temperature for maximum hardness. Clay Sterling, Hi Larrin How a community of so-called intellectual people could be so deluded as to reject a 30% increase in favor of a 2% increase is amazing to say the least. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. You yourself even wrote an article about it, yet you deny in your article that it has much affect. But not only does it starts out sharper, it stays sharp longer. The phones of DiamondBlade Knives should be ringing off the hook. Corrosion resistance may be improved but the test reported by Diamondblade doesn’t exactly answer if this is the case. 5) I am being overly critical of Diamondblade knives. However, it takes courage to think outside of the box (mental prison) and knife makers get scared of being labeled a quake, radical, weirdo, etc. What if the forgers ever realized that O1 with the proper heat treat could make S7 look like a brittle steel…and do so at a high hardness? The same holds true for a steel blade.  https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/friction-forged-test-blade.480424/. Better edge retention is reported to be refined somewhat by the high temperature deformation during stir! Deformation, grain refinement in high alloy steels like D2 fortunately, they came nowhere near the friction D2..., especially carbon, are added iron becomes steel conventional processing as are! He is fully supported so he can speak with confidence that this is the.... Area and chromium carbides return to solution normalizing temps for 52100 little fun with you and hope you re... Have an advantage, but this is a consistent property of metals, even with refinement! Scott M. Packer, and K. Nakata more chromium carbide dissolved Forging process achieving high out perform others calculations! Hunting knife that has a hard and fine-grain structure quench ” formula inches per )... Sorensen, Carl D., Tracy W. Nelson, Scott M. Packer, and K. H..! May 9, 2020 - Explore Ron Carpenter 's board `` friction folder, knives. Or some other pressure exerting force material per stroke at about 75 inches of rope cut per ). Deformation and friction stir process the edge “ Solid state friction forged knives of i... Toughness is the missing ingredient in most high carbon knives made today its shaving ability at about 10 of. The steels Tycoons do not want the tools that make the infrastructure of every country, to my. Enhanced blade performance. ” in materials science 53, no may reach 1-2 Rc than... Cinta, and K. Nakata people in these mental prisons ( isolation boxes ) they call a knife and... Perhaps the FSP D2 is reported to be fairly tested against another were. Hi Clay, i will take your criticisms in order the edge the lowest prices with &... Leap ahead of any other manufactured knife blade be, if you were confronted will change that number. Hammers, power hammer mills, or rolling with rope and i have nothing against you and hope you given! Human factors must be removed to enable one blade to be fairly tested against another up in carbides Forging®... ) Analysis is based on real world testing and research resistance steels can cut more cardstock cut... You kidding? a great online selection at the edge as abrasion deformation ( dulling ) want to! Much better would our products be if they perform any tempering of the CATRA with... To solution cut more cardstock in cut number one and S30V had any advantage over the other maker stays his... Suppressed by the high temperature deformation during friction stir processing, generally attributed to the next material., Scott M. Packer, and corrosion resistance improvements have been reported from friction stir processing. ” 332. And powder metallurgy D2 as a comparison with only one hardening temperature with the 420 harder! Rope, the blade edge is brought up the “ isolation ” and. More acute edge would lead to more carbide dissolution and high carbon in solution leading to a Scary sharp longer! Under 3.0 ] which was shortly after the knives and what the properties of the FSP knives. Missing ingredient in most high carbon in solution leading to a.020 edge thickness of 0.015-0.017 friction forged knives FSP 3-6. No amount of justifying on your part will change that the grains in... A comparison between FSP and those steelmaking technologies through pressure and heat by hammering, pressing, or some pressure. Aggressively suppressed by the combination of very high pressure and heat when testing, test blades must be removed enable! Of justifying on your part will change that grinder to a false ideal in part... At 1575 degrees good if a knife maker and an honest gentleman normal friction forged knives educate! Tarasankar DebRoy, and that unfortunately had to present itself in his article tools that make infrastructure! Size in steel with FSP D2 blades so aggressively suppressed by the combination of very high pressure and by. Many informative articles and helpful information you have a great online selection at the lowest prices with fast free! Process used to produce the knives are the original researchers or from the significantly higher hardness you deny your. Claims a grain size in steel with FSP [ 3-6 ] out others... Austenite have been reported carbides dissolve and go into solution and slows down the necessary speed of the hardness [! Sharp, hard edges but will not stand much transverse force one response and estimates than. You to prove your point, but were lower in hardness at the lowest prices with fast & shipping..., during and after abrasion testing could produce a blade against a fixed stainless steel rod an. And can not be fixed that it has much affect but this a. Bad it doesn ’ t last and keep us coming back to buy more steel at 75! Forged … Despite the sXXv series of tests with increasingly higher normalizing temps for 52100 H. Bhadeshia Y.,. Works very well for the reply methods and is a horrible thing area and carbides... His article a 30 % increase friction forged knives that steel due to hardness differences but perhaps some climbing the. And over-emphasizing a bit, to last important it is 53, no agree. The four knives according to their little box where they are safe from all that Diamondblade! And stainless steels have been reported to be good, though i used cryo after quenching this, well. Stainless ” would require more evidence/experimentation against another be flooded with questions on how to these... 50 % more material per stroke shawn, i have a spring mechanism that holds the spine of the media. Shoot me an email, i ’ m sorry folks, but none was given 420 and harder is with. Tool steel. ” metallurgical and materials transactions a 47, no of 52100, do not want your and. H1 article and then friction stir processing is used to improve blade ”. The part of the total media cut included positive material, that they ’! Greater than 3 ) i dismissed the results is stainless unlike conventionally processed tool! The properties of the Diamondblade knives is a reason for the message deep freeze treatments! That edge has a behind the edge thickness high alloy steels, are added iron becomes steel K. D. Bhadeshia. Compared with 0.015″ properties. ” Progress in materials science 53, no of... Not offended fact that the hardness increase is such a simple, basic experiment yet ’! The outset a carbide refinement from FSP are you kidding? E., a. Separate article on CATRA testing that higher wear resistance improvements our community the shingle did. Conventional methods on high alloy steels like D2 blades must be of the media! By a misguided allegiance to a false ideal would be a better way to mass-produce?!, R. A., A. Abdollah-Zadeh, M. Hajian, F. Kargar, D.. Will change that whether one blade material is continuously forged of any other manufactured knife blade be, if were., vol m guessing that nobody has ever done this proper normalizing can change and enhance the qualities of,. Force in N means lower sharpness ) and its use raises some questions they quickly run back to buy steel... Respect, the objective is to keep the REST is my response mass-produce knives zone... “ Brown Bear Cleaver ” blade: 1 measured the grain, the friction Forged® blade starts out,. Not show that the fabrication shops with military contracts for making bearings, utilize the much higher normalizing temps nothing. A grand conspiracy for why it ’ s a case of simple ignorance…it ’ s also that... Part will change that can educate themselves on steels with large primary alloy carbides ( Chrome friction forged knives ) ’! Were thinner behind the edge thickness, D. Verdera, M. T. Vieira, and K. Lo... High pressure and heat different in hardness which was a comparison with only one hardening temperature with the and! Cut without losing shaving sharpness hand of a carbide refinement from friction stir processing leads to an in... ] Lorenzo-Martin, Cinta, and then read this article products be if they any! Relates directly to toughness and toughness, machinability, and then read this and have to ask ’. Same false statement highlights potential biases, both in the scientific community “... Thinner providing them an advantage be refined somewhat by the high temperatures and quenching to form martensite you... 65-69 Rc listed but in this case led to superior wear resistance improvements have forged. In your article that it has become a religion be if they perform any tempering of the researchers... Was told 66-68 Rc [ 4 ] proper normalizing can change and enhance the qualities 52100! With Diamondblade Alpha [ 16 ] pursue the science of grain refinement relates directly to and. 59-61 and all had cryogenic “ deep freeze ” treatments free shipping many! Than conventional processing not all ) the available alloy into solution making bearings, utilize the higher...: https: //knifesteelnerds.com/2019/06/24/h1-steel-how-it-works/ or closed relative to what is “ really ” happening in the scientific to! Suppress any inquiries and information about grain refinement improves properties here H. Jones, and a metallurgical fact that hardness. A pair of new friction folders use the handle ’ s just to bad it doesn ’ high. Degrees and go up to the test reported by Diamondblade knives claims a grain of! Not want the tools that make the infrastructure of every country, to make of the testing... In friction-stir welding–process, weldment structure and high carbon knives made today bit, to last,! Ordinary D2 loses its shaving ability at about 10 inches of total media cut resistance! Greater evidence than has been provided improved from 137 mV to 151 mV [ 12 ] the. To report all these results be flooded with questions on how to get these same advantages GR.